>> thank you for joining me tonight on this grim story. >> thank you. you can have the last word online at our blog, the last word at msnbc.com. follow us on facebook and follow me on twitter. that's tonight's last word. "rachel maddow show" is up next, including her interview with former wisconsin senator rust fine gold. good evening, rachel. >> good evening. we are happy to have rust with us tonight. thanks for sticking with us for this hour. if you are not a regular consumer of regular media in this country, if you aren't watching the fox news channel, listening to right wing talk radio or reading right wing blogs all day, we are in a moment in american politics in which there are things happening, things being proposed and enacted by elected officials that may seem out of the blue to you, may seem like they don't bear any relationship to the actual news in our country, the actual challenges that we actually face. nevertheless, these things are being acted on with great

urgency by conservative politicians. for example, the state of oklahoma voting to ban sharia law. actually, 13 states moving to ban sharia law. is there any threat of sharia law taking over an american state? no not in any sense of a fact. it is the same dynamic we saw with death panels in health reform, right? if you consume fact based information about health reform, you would know the death panels turned into something about having a living will. nothing to do with some board of bureau krats deciding you should die. not only believed in death panels, but believed that death panels were the main defining thrust of what healthcare reform was. this is conceptually important in our country in 2011. if you do not like watching conservative media, you nevertheless have to understand what it is they're doing over

there in order to understand what republicans are doing in politics. it is like the secret decoder ring that makes otherwise totally non sequitur statements and political actions make some sense. at least make us understand what sense we think they're making. to that end, we have a slight revision to make. it is not a correction, it is a revision to our lead story on yesterday's show. it finally occurred to us today that we had not applied right wing media decoder technology to what's going on with the speaker of the house, john boehner, in trying to understand his latest big political mistake. as you know, john boehner is not having an easy time as speaker. republicans are having a hard time getting even basic legislating done, having a hard time doing basic things that need to be done to run the house, having a hard time picking a message, sticking with it, getting members to act as a unit, instead of like a bunch of six-year-olds playing soccer. three teams, two goals. you decide.

even with the hard time they're having, what john boehner did this week is so bad politically, so contrary to what his party says it wants to be doing that it has to have some explanation. it is like if somebody was trying to parallel park, and instead of oh, hey, wait a minute, you sort of messed up, your tire is on the curb, this is a guy parallel parking and all of a sudden the car is upside down, something else has to explain it. you don't make an error this big without some explaining. >> over the last two years since president obama has taken office, the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs. and if some of those jobs are lost in this, so be it. we're broke. it is time for us to get serious about how we're spending the nation's money. >> do you have an estimate on how many will and won't that impact the economy? >> i do not.

>> why would i even care. why bother counting. some people are going to lose their jobs. what do i care. that's going to have a bad affect on the economy? the woman standing behind him going that's right, john. how can you have a top job in washington saying you don't care if what you're doing is killing jobs. unemployment rate is 9%. we would be delighted to make it worse? our actions will put more americans out of work in this economy, awesome, we're all for it? come on. you don't accidentally let something like that slip. where is he coming from, what is he talking about? >> the federal government has added 200,000 new federal jobs. and if some of those jobs are lost in this, so be it. >> a, that's not true. but b, i think we're getting at something with the emphasis he's putting on federal jobs. federal jobs. public jobs. see, those are the jobs he's okay with killing.

those aren't real jobs. people that work for government don't have real jobs. public jobs are bad jobs. republicans are against those kinds of jobs. they want those jobs to go away. if you are not part of the conservative movement, if you're not in on the way they talk to each other in their media, this probably makes no sense. republicans declaring that teachers, cops, firefighters, toll takers, nurses, people that work at the highway department, if you're employed at any of those jobs, your job is not a real job. in fact, your having that job is bad for the country and the country would be better off if you were unemployed. public employees are an enemy of america. the only way america gets stronger is if public employees are broken. that's the message. if you work taking tolls on a bridge somewhere, you are the problem. if you teach school, you are the problem. they have been talking amongst themselves this way in conservative media and conservative politics for a long time, but now it is crossing over, and if you just take it at face value, it seems like a big

political mistake, but there's a whole lot of republicans standing behind john boehner going that's right, we hate those jobs. it has become mainstream centrist republican policy. mainstream centrist republican point, even in pun dan tree to congratulate any republican politician who declares war on people that work in the public sector. chris christie, governor of new jersey was in washington test driving a presidential run. the basis of his popularity among republicans is how hard a line he is taking against teachers and cops and anybody who works for any level of government. chris christie's office created a youtube channel that largely features clips of him confronting and yelling at people who are evil enough to work for the state, or clips of him discussing ways he's going to take things that people that work in the public sector negotiated for, how he's going to take those things away. one of the ways tim pawlenty tried to run his little engine that could, talking about people that work for the state as if they are murderous prisoners

coming after you in the prison yard. he said the public employee unions would stick a shiv in all of us if they could. a shiv? those are the kinds of things republican politicians say now if they're ambitious, want to make themselves more popular. that's how scott walker from wisconsin is trying to make his mark. friday, governor walker announced suddenly he was refusing to negotiate with anybody that worked for the state. no negotiations. instead, he would direct the republican controlled legislature to pass by fiat this week his budget that goes after the bargaining rights of people that work for the state. not only would he not negotiate with them, he would never negotiate with them again. he would remove their right to collectively bargain. shocked at how fast he is trying to jam it through, they are not

letting it go down. 30,000 people protested in madison today. 30,000. double the number of people that turned out yesterday. the protests we've been covering in bahrain today? the turnout seemed to equal the turnout in bahrain's capitol city. everybody wonders if that uprising will overthrow that government. we have 30,000 people in madison, wisconsin. ap describing the protest as larger and more sustained than any in madison in decades. the floor of the rotunda was filled with sleeping bags because demonstrators wouldn't go home. a public hearing to take public testimony on what the governor is trying to do in wisconsin was in hour 17 when republican lawmakers tried to end it. they decided they had heard enough. that was at 3:00 in the morning.

democrats kept the hearing going, taking a short break only at 8:30 a.m. to move to another room, then they started the hearing up again. the state's second largest school district in madison today had no school, because teachers and staff called in sick and went to the state capitol to protest. because of organizing by people who cash paychecks rather than sign paychecks, because of organizing by employees, by people that work for the company, not the people that own the company, that's how we got laws against child labor in this country. that's how we got a minimum wage. that's how we got the 40-hour work week, and weekends. you like those? that's why we have sick days. that's why there is such a thing as overtime. these things were all hard fought by the labor movement. their insistence over generations that working full time in america should earn you a living. should get you out of poverty. that over time is what created the american middle class, and you can't understand today's modern politics. stuff seems like inexplicable mistakes by the speaker of the house.

you can't understand today's politics without understanding republicans and the conservative movement are against the thing that made it possible for america to have a middle class. >> there is chaos all around the globe, pockets of instability. it is caused by unions. >> public employee unions are not going to be able to have the same ridiculous benefits they have had in the past. >> teachers battling cuts. they say they're fighting for the kids. >> maybe it is time they get out of the train business and find something else like paying off some of our debt as a solution here instead of their teacher union, labor union friends all the time. >> unionizing the tsa, while potentially disastrous for the country, is going to be great for the unions. you see, you pay the screener, they pay the union. i wonder how much of that money will be spent in america and how much will be spent overseas

organizing revolutions. >> up next in the union watch, we give out our very first follow the money gipper award to the governor of wisconsin. >> call out the national guard, the unions were the latest plan. >> if you do not consume this stuff from right wing media regularly, it may be a surprise to hear it, but it is sort of the only way to understand why the newest crop of ambitious republican leaders are trying to advance themselves and their own careers by kicking teachers and toll takers and firefighters and cops, kicking them in the teeth, whenever they have the opportunity. wisconsin public employees show us that they are very capable of standing up for themselves. that's why we've seen incredible scenes in madison the past few days. but who is standing up for them? who stands up for them? the right is unified against them. do we want to go back to the era of no child labor laws, no weekends? do we want to do that as a country?

who stands with them, who stands with these folks when they are attacked like this? kids do, it turns out. this is footage of students from memorial high with students from eed madison high school and middleton high school, all took off from school and went to the state capitol to support their teachers. here are the firefighters of wisconsin, supporting the other public workers who are getting kicked in the teeth today in wisconsin. why is it important that the firefighters are out there? because the only three unions that supported the republican governor of wisconsin in the last election were the firefighters and the cops and the state troopers, okay? miraculously, those are the only three unions that governor scott walker is not stripping of their rights. so even as this governor tries to divide and conquer certain sectors, they are standing together. what about the democratic party? is the democratic party taking the other side of this? the democratic party last month

decided they are doing next year's democratic national convention in charlotte, a city without union hotels. democrats campaigned in 2008 saying they would prioritize card check. democrats dropped that off the agenda in washington. if you go back to eisenhower era republican party, they weren't against unions. republican party platform of 1956. quote, the protection of the right of workers to organize into unions and to bargain collectively is the firm and permanent policy of the eisenhower administration. republican party was not always hostile to people that work for a living. over time, conservative movement pushed the republican party into becoming anti-union. that's why ronald reagan breaking the air traffic controllers union was the shot heard around the world. that was the roar of conservative movement politics becoming republican politics. since then, though, they've got the republicans 100% on board, waging self-righteous war on unions, self-righteous war on the people that cash paychecks

instead of those that sign them. where is the counter balance to that? where is the liberal movement in the united states pulling the democrats to take the other side of this fight, now that the conservatives are unified against working people in this way? where is the liberal movement to take the other side of this and stand up for people that work for a living. you look at these people in wisconsin today. who's got their back? rust fine gold was a wisconsin senator for 18 years, formed an organization to try to change imbalance of corporate power in straight from the dryer. the cows aren't going straightto milk themselves. (sniffing) ♪ heaven new gain with freshlock.

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we've been trying to book russ feingold as a guest on the show for years, literally years. tonight with the capitol city of wisconsin erupting in the biggest protests seen there in decades, he joins us for an interview next. 

joining us now for the interview, democratic senator from wisconsin, russ feingold. he is today launching progressives united, a grass roots political action committee. thank you for being with us. i appreciate it. >> good to be on the show again. >> i want to talk to you about progressives united, but i have to get reaction to what we are seeing in madison, dramatic protests. >> let me just say how proud i am of the people of wisconsin for reacting to this outrageous proposal from governor walker. rachel, it is not like the people in wisconsin are in a foul mood. the packers just won the super bowl, the badgers beat the number one ohio state basketball team and it is 50 or 60 degrees warmer than last week.

it is not like people are looking for something to be upset about. but when you stick it in the eye of a badger and try to take away the rights of workers throughout the state, they react, and this is a tremendous, inspiring reaction that shows that we are ready to take the fight against those that want to destroy the rights of working people in our state. >> the governor's line is this is about balancing the budget. some of what he is proposing has no budget implication whatsoever. it is about dismantling unions for people that work for the state. dis dismantling the idea that workers can negotiate. why the difference between what he wants to do and what he is proposing? >> the argument this is about the budget process is phonier than a $3 bill. i served for ten years in wisconsin state senate, and it is a very methodical process that goes on for several months. they figure it out usually by july, and they have a budget. what he did last week was say basically on thursday or friday

i want to take away all the rights of collective bargaining from people and want it done in the next five or six days. this is just a direct attack, driven by corporate interests and the state to bust the unions, and that's what the agenda is. it is really not about the state budget. that's simply phoney. >> is the other political party in this country, is the democratic party taking the other side in that fight? republican politics have become very whom o.j. news on the issue in the way they weren't a generation ago. very anti-employee, pro-business, anti-union. are democrats taking the other side of that fight? >> in our state we are. the democratic party here and the unions both public and private are unified. the folks that are in that capitol are students, teachers, public employees, and private employees, firefighters came. even though as you pointed out, they are trying to divide and

conquer between public employees and divide people within the public employees. it is not going to work. we in wisconsin are going to stand up for the rights you talked about. you listed things like child labor laws, minimum wage and other ideas that came through the labor movement. much of that, most of that, came from wisconsin originally. this is a proud tradition. and we are not going to let governor walker acting as a shill for the corporations destroy the rights of working people. >> you formed a grass roots political action committee, progressives united. i know some of the inspiration for forming this group has to do with corporate power in politics. what's the overall aim, and why try to do it through a pac, why is that the right vehicle for you now? >> progressives united obviously is a play on the fact that citizens united, the decision that helped destroy our campaign finance laws in our condition, was not really something for citizens, it was for corporations. the citizens united decision of

the united states supreme court basically turned on the spig et and said let corporations take whatever money you spend for toothpaste, gasoline, spend it to destroy and control the political process. progressives united is people all over the state of wisconsin and all over the country coming together to fight for the rights of individuals in the political process and to not allow corporations to have those exact same rights. so we're going to fight this decision. we're going to try to overturn the decision. we're going to try to support candidates that fight the implications of it, from the oil companies to the financial benefits that have been given to wall street. but we're also going to fight the kind of things governor walker is trying to do. these corporations seem to believe that this last election was a ticket for them to go after the rights of working people all over this country, and they're trying to do it in wisconsin as a model. our organization will fight all of these efforts, and it is going to be a grass roots organization. progressivesunited.org is getting 10,000 new signups today alone on the first day. there's a hunger out there,

rachel, for opposition to what's going on, and we want to help be part of that effort. >> when you look at the effect of citizens united, one of the ways people shorthand the impact of that decision is saying it undid the mccain feingold financing, campaign finance reform. clearly it's law that is dramatic reversal from what had previously been law of the land. but do you think it structurally changes american politics in a way that is irreversible and that will have a dramatic effect on politics if not overturned? how do you see it changing the way we do politics? >> it is irreversible and it is ironic. the one thing that still stands is mccain feingold. ban on soft money, corporations and others giving huge contribution directly to political parties.

that law stands. what the supreme court did was something far more devastating. it took away the fundamental laws going back to tillman act that banned certain corporate activities in politics, all the way through decisions for almost 100 years. gutted the laws that were the foundation for making sure corporate treasuries couldn't dominate the political process. that was something that was done to counter effects of what was known as the gilded age. this creates a gilded age on steroids, and it is fundamentally changing the political process. we have to reverse the decision. we only need one vote on the supreme court to change to make that happen, and that's one of the things we hope happens in the next few years. >> mr. feingold, let me ask one last question about progressives united. if people join the group, what should they expect. is this a membership organization, is this a meet up, move on style, get out, meet fellow progressives and

demonstrate organization? what are you going to use in terms of tactics? >> all of the above. obviously, we will try to support candidates directly committed to progressive principles, try to urge people in office now to do things like support disclose act, try to make sure information about the contributions come out. but we're going to do far more than that. we're going to make sure we use the internet and all the mechanisms available now that didn't used to be available to make sure people organize, sign petitions, do whatever people have been doing on other issues, but do it in a coordinated way with many other groups that are interested in this issue. we're already talking with them. we need to be unified, regardless of political views, regardless of your particular issue that you're most interested in. this issue, the issue of corporate domination of politics, is one that overrides everything, and we need to come together. our organization is going to help make that happen. >> russ feingold, thank you very much for joining us for the interview tonight. i really appreciate it.

i hope you'll come back and join us again. >> i will. thanks so much, rachel. >> thank you. there is dramatic news breaking at this hour, which is an unlikely hour if you consider the time change. it is breaking this hour in the middle east. after tunesia went, after egypt went, we're getting in some dramatic scenes that are just happening right now, and these scenes of footage we are getting and descriptions we are getting out of one particular country in the middle east is giving an idea what country might be next after tunesia and egypt. details next. tempur-p

. you may know this already about msnbc, but if you don't, i want you to know. they do not tell us what to say on the air. don't give editorial restrictions beyond the company's news standards, and don't make us promote each other's hours and projects if we don't editorially want to, so this is from me and not because anybody told me to say it, all right? if you have not watched ed schultz's show, haven't gotten used to him coming on after this show or whatever, you should watch his show tonight on the insanity going on in wisconsin right now. there is nobody doing a better job covering that story, myself included with an x clam agency point. ed is at the heart of it. from me to you, you should watch it. thank you. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] if you have type 2 diabetes, you struggle to control your blood sugar. [ female announcer ] imagine the possibilities with stelara®.

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it is one thing to try to stop journalists from reporting what is going on. that doesn't mean news doesn't spread, but reporters can be thwarted by authoritarian governments trying hard to do it. that's one thing. it is quite another thing for governments to just makeup what's going on out of whole cloth. iran's government is claiming a student killed during monday's huge protests in their country was not a protester at all, he was working for the government, and he was therefore killed by

those evil protesters. family and friends of the student killed tell numerous news sources not only was the young man not part of government militia as the government claimed, but the young man worked to elect an opposition leader two years ago. the guardian newspaper of britain reports that government authorities staged the young man's funeral, and would not allow his family to attend. instead, according to witnesses, hundreds of militia men were brought in to join the funeral where they clashed with students and opposition protesters there for their own reasons. the iranian regime plans for its own pro-government and anti-opposition protest this friday. they are making it up. in the arab world today, a day ahead of planned day of rage protests, 38 people were reportedly injured. authorities used tear gas and water canons against libyan protesters.

the president of yemen claimed people with foreign agendas